軍武

英烈的歲月

>>1166535
這兩種機種的現存可動機都不多了吔...="=

唉

R.I.P.

>>1166547
美國現在有8架完整的B-17

八個小時前則有9架

>>1166542

https://udn.com/news/story/6809/6761103

影／達拉斯飛行表演釀悲劇
2架二戰古董軍機相撞解體爆炸

2022/11/13

二戰古董軍機飛行表演Wings Over Dallas的現場畫面顯示，一架四引擎的B-17空中保壘轟炸機(B-17 Flying Fortress)低飛越過達拉斯Executive機場，一架較小的P-63 Kingcobra戰機以高速朝B-17直衝而來，兩架飛機相撞後解體，在墜地前爆炸。

>>1166547

我还未弄清楚有多少是适航的。

https://www.airplanes-online.com/b17-flying-fortress-surviving-aircraft.htm
.
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b17registry/b17registry.html

B-17

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p39-p63registry/p63registry.html

P-63

P-63是滑翔機嗎?為什麼它不夠時間拉升+轉向避開
看片子,似乎不是左轉向就不會撞上?

>>1166570
找了篇英文討論來看(內含些其它角度短片)
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/649802-dallas-air-show-crash-2.html

有的懷疑機械故障
有的認為B-17在P-63轉彎時的視線死角或因低飛而被與地貌搞混
左轉可能是想要跟上更前面看似P-51的飛機

>>1166535

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/301048

Boeing B-17G-95-DL Flying Fortress

44-83872 > N7227C

Bell P-63F-1-BE Kingcobra

43-11719 > N6763

>>1166570

在事故发生之前，有五架P-63可以飞行。

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Dallas_airshow_mid-air_collision

This plane was one of only two P-63F variants ever built.
It was one of only five P-63s that remained airworthy.

>>1166570
我看了影片的感想
若P-63原來的意圖是要進入B-17的右側.
那他可能是在進入機鼻遮擋前高估了B-17的速度.

若P-63原來的意圖是要進入B-17的左側
那他可能是空速不當導致他無法完成原來預期中的緊湊轉彎.

确定了三名飞行员的姓名。

https://www.topinfoguide.com/death-obituary/obituary-news-terry-barker-len-root-and-craig-hutain-death-at-least-3-confirmed-dead-following-tragic-two-world-war-plane-collision-during-dallas-air-show/

2022/11/13

Fellow AA pilot & Grey Eagle #4959 Terry Barker and fellow AA pilot Len Root were the pilots on the B-17 midair at KRBD.
The other airplane was a P-63 piloted by UAL CA Craig Hutain.

Rowe少佐是那B-17的机组人员。

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/authorities-identify-victims-killed-in-fatal-collision-at-dallas-air-show/ar-AA144sjh?ocid=weather-verthp-feeds

2022/11/14

A third victim was identified as by the Ohio Wing of the Civil Air Patrol as Major Curtis Rowe.
Major Rowe served as part of the Civil Air Patrol for over 30 years and held every aircrew rating possible.

>>1166549

(剧透)

认真地说，当年我在电影院看这部电影时，我还认为真实的战斗机不能轻易地截断一架B-17轰炸机机身。　(汗

https://www.impdb.org/index.php?title=Memphis_Belle

Memphis Belle (1990)

>>1166668
幫你"補英烈的歲月"劇中鏡頭

切的位置正好是中段機身給兩側槍手開口的地方
縱貫的龍骨在那邊有幾根是中斷的
正好是結構弱處

所以如果Me 109的速度夠 砍到那種地方 B-17會攔腰斷 其實也未必不合理

但如果撞在人家結構密度比較高的區塊
可能就會像這樣
你自己下去了
人家還是能支撐到回家

>>1166682

"Thank you, Mister Spock."
"谢谢你，斯波克先生。"

>>1166683

"Just the facts, ma'am."
"只要事实，太太。"

https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/wwiis-b-17-all-american-separating-fact-fiction.html

WWII’s B-17 “All American” Separating Fact and Fiction

2013/06/27

There is an excellent article with an interview with Ralph Burbridge, the bombardier on “All American” in which you can read his first person account of this mission, as well as his other wartime experiences, though the article incorrectly introduces a bit of misinformation of its own.*
Sadly, Burbridge passed away earlier this year at the age of 93.

>>1166668
其實較小的飛機要靠衝撞直接砍斷較大飛機的機身本來就比較難
通常是把對方撞傷 然後讓承力的應力外殼連續面失效 再讓受損的內部骨架超載
讓已受傷的飛機自己輸給飛行中的多項應力 最終導致解體

撞各部機翼比較容易直接砍斷

>>1166722
有點疑問
現代飛機結構夠硬速度夠快
直接砍斷應該是比螺旋槳時代更有可能吧?

如休斯西部航空706班機空難 - F4垂尾砍斷DC9駕駛艙
https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E4%BC%91%E6%96%AF%E8%A5%BF%E9%83%A8%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA706%E8%99%9F%E7%8F%AD%E6%A9%9F%E7%A9%BA%E9%9B%A3

>>1166773

(参考)

>>1166664

另外两名B-17机组人员。

https://nypost.com/2022/11/14/all-six-crewmen-identified-in-fatal-collision-at-dallas-airshow/

All six crewmen identified in fatal collision at Dallas airshow

2022/11/14

Also killed in the tragedy was Dan Ragan, who had reportedly served on the crashed B-17 back in 1955, when it was part of a Navy unit, the Guardian reported, citing a social media video from a previous Wings Over Dallas event.

Also named among the dead was Kevin Michels, whose name matched that of a man seen in a Facebook video describing a freshly painted B-17 at a Wings Over Dallas show three years ago, the Guardian noted.

为在达拉斯航展坠机事故中丧生的当地飞行员安排葬礼。

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article268800787.html

GoFundMe, funeral arrangements set up for local pilots killed in Dallas air show crash

2022/11/16

Terry Barker and Leonard “Len” Root, former employees of American Airlines who both lived in Keller, were killed while aboard a B-17 bomber involved in the crash, according to the Allied Pilots Association.

>>1166682

实际上，二战第三帝国空军也有神风敢死队战术。

https://worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/german-kamikazes-little-known-wwii-tale-of-suicidal-pilots-over-europe

German Kamikazes: Little-Known WWII Tale of Suicidal Pilots Over Europe

2011/03/29

Towards the end of World War II, the German Luftwaffe airforce resorted to a series of deadly suicide missions.
Die Welt journalist and historian Sven Felix Kellerhoff examines a little documented chapter in Germany’s military history.

The U.S. pilots of the B-17 and B-24 bombers were left with only seconds to quickly maneuver their comparatively slower planes out of the way.
Nearly two dozen of the Flying Fortresses and Liberators did not succeed: they collided with the fighters.
Various reports cite that between eight and 15 U.S. planes were torn apart or so badly damaged that they had to be abandoned.
Another 28 bombers were shot down by German fighters.

>>1167067
蘇聯空軍一直保留了空中撞擊訓練
1930年代甚至一度還研發了專門用來撞的飛機
rokhovskij G-39 Cucaracha

機首有根桿子，掛著鋼纜延伸到機翼端，形成類似鋼絲刀
的用途

>>1167068
俄國人：轟炸機一來我一個滑鏟用鋼繩割開它肚子

>>1167077
阿米轟炸機群展開對空彈幕了!

最近发生的一些涉及老式飞机的致命坠机事故。

https://www.thespec.com/ts/news/world/2022/11/14/some-recent-fatal-crashes-involving-vintage-aircraft.html

Some recent fatal crashes involving vintage aircraft

2022/11/14